Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. The gearing spread is a very capable 6.04, with ratios in each gear as follows: First: 4.02, Second: 2.36, Third: 1.53, Fourth: 1.15, Fifth: .085, Sixth: 0.67, Reverse: 3.06. GM states, ". The 6L80 was used in trucks, particularly in the GMT 900 platform. That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. The Nightmare on Oak Street: A hunt for 4L30E electrical problems How. The transmission is automatically shifted featuring performance algorithms to minimize upshifts during closed throttle driving to prevent unnecessary shifting. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. It is a 5 position shifter, Park, Reverse, Neutral, Drive and Sport Mode. The 6L80E uses four under drive gears and two overdrive gears. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. The readers on this site are a pretty sharp bunch. For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System. Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. The Ford 10R80 has a fill plug and dipstick on the passenger side of the case like the 6R80 transmission. Fourth 1.80 But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. Conceptually, locking the converter should help the mph trap speed by reducing slippage. Quick 4 Stand-Alone Transmission Control System The 6L80 / 6L90 TEHCM is located inside of the transmission on the 6L80 / 6L90 valve body. Ford describes their two different shift strategies as single and double step shifts. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. Thank you. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. I would like to keep the turbo small so it would spool extremely quickly and the compression high to be responsive. Thats pretty much all thats to it. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? Powertrain Expo Transmission Pan Bolt Set Chevy 6L80E 6L90E 8L80E 8L90E 10L80E 10L90E 18pcs. Spin losses (i.e. The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. But, GM had been in transmission limbo, so to speak, needing a modern transmission to fill the duty gap between the excellently versatile4L60E (and its tougher 4L65 & 4L70 variants)and the Allison transmissions. Comes with a complete harness and the necessary software to program the TCM-2650 Module. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. The transmission will bolt up but will not work since the TCM, Tehcm and BCM are application specific and cannot interchanged. 8 Options if Your Transmission Has Failed, Transmission Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Best Remanufactured Transmission Companies, Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost and Prices, 10 Most Common Transmission Problems & How to Fix Them, How to Change Transmission Fluid Step by Step, What is a Transmission Flush? Wait 2 seconds. It is an incredibly advanced transmission and has the technology to . The 6L80Es gear rations are as follows: There are two super easy ways to tell whether or not the transmission is a 6L80E. The ball bearing remained tight on the stator shaft support housing. 2024 Mustang Prices Are Out, Dark Horse Is . document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Its a single-disc, non-captive clutch unit that is somewhat similar to late 300mm 4L60-E converters. 2018 YUKON DENALI 64K ON THE MILES HAS A CLICKING NOISE AT A IDLE LIKE A CRACKED FLYWHEEL OR SOMETHING BOUNCING IN THE PAN CHEVY PUT NEW EXHAUST ON IT THINKING IT WAS IN THE CONVERTER ALSO PUT A NEW PUMP IN THE TRANS THIS SOUND IS NOT THE SAME EVERY TIME SOUNDS LIKE A BOUNCING BOLT SINCE THE PUMP WAS IN STALLED NOW SEEMS TO OLY MAKE NOISE WHEN WARMED UP MY SON IS A TRANSMISSION MAN HE SAYS IT A SOUND THEY MAKE WHEN THEY ARE SUCKING AIR NOT SURE ON THAT I WAS A MECHANIC FOR MANY MANY YEARS CANT FIGURE THIS OUT NOR CAN GM ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS ? Fits 6L80, 6L90, 8L90, 10L80 units, TR6060, TR3160 manual units. The high pressure oil pump inside this transmission is incredibly complicated for no visible reason. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. This is a normal and desired behavior. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. AM-DT-51190 threads into that port and connects to the J-45096 TransFlow. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. (incl. Fluid Capacity 13 qts, First 4.70 Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. It can also be controlled under DSC, or Driver Shift Control, e.g., "tap shifting". Thats more than almost any other GM automatic transmission. Account. Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. If we change to the latest GM 10-speed automatic it has a 4.70:1 First gear and is factory matched with a 2.85:1 rear gear. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. Powerglide (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), TH350 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), TH400 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP), TH200-4R (bellhousing pattern - BOP, Fit-all), TH700-R4 /4L60 (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet). Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. If you are tearing down a new job and cant find any hard part failure that would result in the amount of metal you have in the pan, its just about certain that the inside of the torque converter looks like the disaster area shown in Figure 1. Indirectly affects TCC control and shift control. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). The GM transmission is the 10L80, which is available in several models as well. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". So if there are any possible ways to upgrade the RPM Level 6 4L70E in my 416 CI Trailblazer, the 4L80E in my Silverado with a LS2 with heavily worked and milled 243s, Ported and polished Fast LSXRT 102mm intake, and the Caprice PPV I am looking for the right one. So why does the JMBX converter have this chronic problem? Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. These concerns may be caused by a sticking TCC Regulator Valve (Figure 5). At times the 10-speed transmission may skip gears when the vehicle downshifts to a complete stop. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! Lots of good information I do have one question That no one seems to be able to give a good answer to. By the time a converter rebuilder opens up a JMBX, the damage is done, and it can be hard to see what happened first. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. full. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. Renew Subscription The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. The 10L90 and 10L80 10 Speed Automatic Transmissions are on exchange through GM PQC as part of our ongoing quality improvement efforts to assist Engineering with product concern identification effective on 02/13/16. In a similar vein, GM Gen. IV engines do not always take kindly to other transmissions such as manuals (essentially no longer available from GM), and most automatics that predate the 6L80. See how the ratios have swapped places? It began replacing the 4L60E transmission in many vehicles starting in the 2006 model year. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. 80 series is rated for 80 Newton's, 90 series is rated for 90 Newton's. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. This is both a return to and a departure from previous automotive control systems in the industry in that earlier electronic transmissions used a separate control module, later to be integrated into the Engine Control Modules which were thus termed Powertrain Control Modules. R.F. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. So my suggestion is to not subject the lockup to that amount of abuse. The 6L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is a 6 speed automatic transmission manufactured by General Motors. While its true that, many times, the root cause of a converter failure lies in the transmission, in this case, there is ample evidence that the opposite is true: an inherent torque converter problem might be the root cause of a lot of the transmission failures. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. Im with you on AFM is crap. The drive gear and idler gear with the bearing are not sold separately. It would be a huge mistake not toAFM is garbage. Beyond that, its probably not a good idea even if it will allow lockup because that clutch surface area is limited. Subscribe Now The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. The Ford 10R80 is a new 10-speed, rear wheel drive transmission that's available in several models, beginning in 2017. For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. The dealership was able to provide this part rather quickly. Inspect the warmer for damage and related lines for leaks (Figure 4). Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. Thanks for the question! Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. What is most welcome about it is that it is a very durable, functional and impressive transmission assembly and appears to have a terrific prospect with GM and the aftermarket community. Our theory as to why 6L80, 6L90 converters fail like they do is related to the shape and thickness of the JMBX piston. 700R4 / 4L60E with PATC close ratio gear set. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? The 6L80 / 6L90 uses three-way solenoids and variable bleed solenoids for improved shift quality. In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! Convert your american classic car with more modern technology. A used 10L80 is pulled from a wrecked vehicle, so theres no telling what may be wrong with it, or how long it will last. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. Where the original 4L80E First gear is 2.48:1, TCI created a 2.97:1 First gear ratio. $3,245*. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. 1) Centerline of engine and transmission are the same on LS block and all trans that mount to it. lost energy) are reduced by only having two of the six clutches open at any time. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. In doing this, we evaluated another GM unit the 4L60-E TMBX to see if we could pick up any clues. The check engine light might be on, and the customer complains of a slipping sensation with intermittent clunks. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. I am making a great deal of changes to the truck from a Procharged 5.3 to a head, cam, Fast LSXRT intake LS2 on nitrous before we build a 3.9 bore and stroke twin turbo 372ci setup. The 6L80 has surprised us power transmission aficionados with its wholesale adoption of new and very different technologies. For the 4L60-E TMBX, the pistons are .115" thick, and for the 6L80, 6L90 JMBX, the pistons are significantly thicker at .150". Will this hurt the trani? Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Why the thin woven carbon clutch doesnt typically fail in the 4L60-E TMBX. Essentially what TCI did was to engage the overdrive at the back of the trans to split the gear spread between the original First and Second gear ratios and again between Second and Third. Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. However, if you look beyond the outside of the front covers of TMBX and JMBX and look inside the units, the similarity quickly disappears. The 6L50, 6L80, 6L90, 8L45, 8L90, 10L60, 10L80, & 10L90 transmissions from MY2015 to current are filled through a port in the bottom of the oil pan. GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. : 18-NA-355 Special Tools DT-52263 Transmission Fluid Exchange Kit: DT-52263-1 Block Assembly (includes fluid drain Engine torque rating increases minimally, but the output torque rating of the transmission jumps up by nearly 220 ft. lbs. 2020 10l80 4wd an I one to convert to 2wd. Most of the larger displacement applications will have an auxiliary oil-to-air cooler in the system as well. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. As the 10 speeds continue to make their way into our shops, keep in mind the more you know about them, the better off youll be. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. If there are worn valves or faulty inputs or controls, its easy to see how the clutch could start to shudder and quickly fail. Its good for a 12.69 @ 111 mph in cool dry weather.I go down the track with the lock up switch off. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. This idler gear and ball bearing assembly is mounted to the stator shaft support housing. Established Member. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. $499.00. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. The new Third gear in the TCI trans is 1.57:1, which is then overdriven to create Fourth gear which is 1.57 x 0.75 = 1.18:1 which is just 18 percent away from direct drive 1:1, which becomes Fifth gear. Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. Sonnax highlights two product lines for helping with heavy solenoids for GM/Ford 10L/10R and 9T series transmissions. Every modern GM vehicle has one of these sheets in its glove compartment. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. Shift the transmission to Neutral. But in the 6L80 JMBX, we started to look very closely at the converter itself to see if we could determine a root cause. The solenoids can be replaced separately, but only with the same type of solenoid. As a result, it became a popular choice despite sharing most of its internal components with its predecessor, the 700R4. Fifth 1.52 Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. For a type B code, the fault must be present after two consecutive ignition cycles, otherwise, the MIL will not illuminate (however, a pending code will store). What is your recomendation for towing? ! I see where Summit Racing lists a TCI transmission that was originally a 4L80E but they list it as a six-speed transmission. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. The complaints may be difficult to duplicate. We are High Performance Transmission Builders and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. The overdrive ratio thats added is 0.75:1. After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A Stuck On. GM has been useless to say the least, and waited me out (now off warranty). Unlike previous shift solenoids, they are mechanical in nature in that no transmission fluid passes through them (Figure 2). 3. NonStop-Transmission. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. The 6L80 is a modular transmission, featuring removable bellhousings and tailhousings for interchangeability with the GM 90 Degree engines and other potential engines in the future. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. For now, the bulk of reported cases are related to diesel vehicles. Case 1 piece aluminum with integrated bell housing Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. What came first: the chicken or the egg? All of the 1998-up cases used behind the LS family of engines used the separate bellhousing style of case. The Chevrolet Performance 6L80E trans comes with a set of wiring harness adapters and a flash drive that is used to configure the transmission to be used behind a GM LS engine in a rear wheel drive application. I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. Foremost on the list is the Sonnax clutch apply kit. Online Buyer's Guide This 7-3/8" long extension housing can eliminate transmission crossmember modifications when replacing a TH400 or TH200-4R transmission with a 4L60 assembly. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. Comparing that to our old TH-400 combo, wed need 5.40:1 rear gear to equal the overall First Gear ratio in the new Corvette. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. As such, Sonnax has a good view of both sides of the pump, so we are intimately involved with engineering solutions to both trending transmission AND converter issues. The HydraMatic can be adapted to the popular Jeep transfer cases, including the: Essentially all factory GM 4wd applications available with an OEM configured 6L80 have adapters and transfer cases that are prohibitively long for a Jeep, and transfer cases whose sizes and gearing fall short of desirable for most Jeep applications. As we have all learned with other units, very often the root cause of a converter clutch failure stems from a failure within the electro/hydraulic controls from the transmission. They are listed as Type A, Type B, and Type C diagnostic trouble codes. Production Began 2017 It is a dog in the summer time. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? Related Articles Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission Solving, This article applies to Chrysler RFE, RLE and TES transmissions that utilize pressure control solenoids (PCS) for line pressure control. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! And with four gearsets and six clutches (2 brake, 4 rotating), the 10L80 10-speed has just one more clutch than the 8L90 8-speed transmission (this is partly because of a unique triple-clutch assembly mounted near the middle of the case). The factory clutch apply piston has a sharp, square edge that does not completely apply force across the entire clutch piston. Weight 230+ lbs (weight varies depending on application) Also, Im not sure if the trans will allow converter lockup at WOT. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic.